Puyol was bought when he was 17 and Oleguer was signed when he was 21.

They're hardly Barca developed youth players are they? So if you claim them as a sign that you have great youth development, then Cesc must be a success story from the Arsenal youth development, is that right?

I mean, claiming that a player who was 21 when you signed him was a product of your youth development program is really stretching it don't you think?

To: neveryoumind
Wow, you seem to be a know-it-all.
In Oleguers case you are right he is not a product of the youth academy, but here we were talking about integrating young players.

But do you not find your comment ridiculous yourself? You are trying to make a point on an issue that was meant in a diffence sense anyway, but do you not find it much more interesting about commenting on the 19 young talents that have been used in the first team over the last 3 years?

Actually, your comment is a typical example of jealous fans of other clubs who do not have their own successful youth set up. Instead of talking about the main issue hear your are pointing something out that is not of much relevance.

Make a comment about the 19 players! That would be more interesting.

OK

As an Arsenal fan, I find it hard to understand your manager insinuating that we (specifically us) don't have a youth team setup.

For the season just finished, we have a squad of the following players: -

1. Jens Lehmann
2. Abou Diaby
3. Ashley Cole (youth)
8. Fredrik Ljungberg
9. Jose Antonio Reyes (youth)
10. Dennis Bergkamp
11. Robin Van Persie (youth)
12. Lauren
13. Alexander Hleb
14. Thierry Henry
15. Francesc Fabregas (youth)
16. Mathieu Flamini (youth)
17. Alexandre Song (youth)
18. Pascal Cygan (youth)
19. Gilberto
20. Philippe Senderos (youth)
21. Mart Poom
22. Gael Clichy (youth)
23. Sol Campbell
24. Manuel Almunia
25. Emmanuel Adebayor
27. Emmanuel Eboue
28. Kolo Toure (youth)
29. Sebastian Larsson (youth)
31. Justin Hoyte (youth)
32. Theo Walcott (youth)
33. Nicklas Bendtner (youth)
34. Matthew Connolly (youth)
36. Johan Djourou (youth)
38. Kerrea Gilbert (youth)
41. Arturo Lupoli (youth)
44. Fabrice Muamba (youth)
45. Anthony Stokes (youth)

That's 20 ex-youth team players in our squad, in just the last season alone, out of a squad of 33. If we were to go back 3 years, as you do, it would be far higher. Players who have since been sold, such as Pennant would be in the list also.

Forgive me if I didn't credit some of the players on this list as having played youth team football for us, but I don't have time to look at the profile for every single player.

Oh, and how old does youth go to? cause I would've thought 21 was too old for a youth team player, but as you all include that age, I have too.

Now, I'm not saying Barcelona don't have a good youth policy, however, your manager can't help but say we don't, so I'm just pointing out a few home truths, namely, that I beleive we've got a far better youth policy than Barcelona have.

Further to my point, I would also suggest that the only reason Barcelona feel the need to report these figures, is to try and prevent their young players moving elsewhere, when in actual fact, they might just have a better chance of breaking into the first team elsewhere.

Maybe it's something to do with the apparent court case between you and us over Fran Merida. Who knows?

I guess you can't answer that can you?

Well done for having 19 players from your youth system appear in your first team squad in the last 3 years, what's your thoughts on us having 20 this season alone?

A higher figure, and a higher percentage?

Jealous? Us? I think not.

Thanks for Merida by the way, he looks pretty talented. I'm sure Wenger will take him that last step, from talented youngster into world class footballer.
He's much better off with our youth system.

A serious question. Apart from good ol'local boy Lionel Messi, how many minutes in the Champions League & La Liga (before Barcelona wrapped up the title) did all those youth products put in for the first team last season?

To: neveryoumind [Visitor]
You are the perfect example for most of the Arsenal fans commenting on this blog. Do you actually read was is written or do you just need some audience of writting nonsense.
Please read first, then use your brain carefully (you have to because it seems there is not much of it there, so do not waste it) and then make a useful comment.

1.) You are listing all names up that you can find (most of them have not played a minute, including wonderboy Theo). They are all bought or they have not played. The only player I know that features in your current squad is Ashley Cole but I do not even know when he joined Arsenal (but to be honest, I am not even interested). I just know that he looked like a Mickey Mouse against Giuly in the final and this interests me much more.

2.) For sure we do not have a cout case with you. It is Barca, and for you, Football Club Barcelona, please, who has some court issue with Arsenal. I do not even believe that Barca will be successfull in it but it still does not say that this form and way of taking talents from other clubs are correct. at least there has to be a different compensation scheme. I do not think that it is correct that in England you have to pay absolute silly money for an english player like Theo Walcott and you go around your own rules and regulations and hunt in other people´s territory. If you are a big Club, you would not do it.
There you can see, that Chelsea needs a bit of time to get there because tradition you can not buy and unfortunately arsenal, will always have to look up when they want to talk to one of the big guys.

3.) I can always answer you, no problem at all. But my time is precious, yours obviously not otherwise you would not spent the time to post such a rubbish. But to be honest, I can not find very much in your comment that I could answer too. May be you try to say something important and I am sure also other people would answer on your comment. But your comments seem to bore anybody here, so it is not worth it. "May be somebody wants to waste some time and answer to him?" Thanks!

4.) Can anybody tell, who of these 20 (!!!) players mentioned here, have not be bought or, we say at least stayed min. 3 years in the youth Academy of Arsenal have appeared in an official match this season?
Is it true that in this list is also theo Walcott included who had been signed for a record fee for a youngster and this just recently? Is this what we called producing yopur own youngsters?
Hmm, I was right, he just does not read the posts properly.

To: redgun [Visitor]
I can really see your serious in your question. A bit ironic, isn´t it. Trying to say something?
Not sure what you mean with local boy, but he is Argentinian. He spent over 5 years in the youth set up and developed from there into the first team. Any more questions?
Ahh forgot, I think it was Arsenal that fielded 11 local boys that are foreigners in a Premiership match and it seems that coaches like Pardew (like him or not) would actually understand where I am coming from.
I really do not have the time to make a full list but Puyol, Valdes, Iniesta, (local boy) Messi, injured Xavi have played most of the matches this year when they have not been injured. I think youth players like Joquera, has been on every match on the bench and played quite some matches as a regular, Rodri only played a few matches in La Liga and the Champions League. Gabri also played regularly or on the bench. The others
have playe youngsters, this year like Damia who played quite some matches has been loaned out to Santander in January where he played as a regular starter and scored 3 goals. Another one, Garcia has been sold to Real Zaragossa. and of course, 7 others got there chance when Barca rested some of there stars. Do you want to exclude these?
This listing here is not complete but gives you a quick overview of the situation.

Interesting that you don't know any of the other players that have played for us this season, yet you feel qualified to comment on our youth set-up.

1. I'm not listing all the names I can find, I'm copying the squad list from the Arsenal website. That means that every player in that list was registered in our first team for the season just finished. The only player you know is Cole? Another example of your ignorance towards our club, yet you still feel qualified to comment. Toure, Reyes, Cesc & Flamini actually played in the final (did you not watch it). Van Persie, Song, Cygan, Senderos, Clichy, Gilbert and Lupoli have also played first team football on more than one occasion this season. As a matter of fact, Van Persie, Clichy & Senderos have played more than half of the season, Cygan has been playing in the first team for the last 2-3 years.
That's 11 of them, off the top of my head. I'm sure more would have played in the Carling Cup games, but as I said, I don't have time to check every player's profile.

2. I don't fully understand your point here, the English is not great (better than my Spanish, I'm not having a go). You seem to be making a point that we shouldn't poach your young players, is that correct? Unfortunately, rules are rules, if your players don't want to leave, they will stay with Barca. If they leave to come to us or any other club, you need to ask yourself why they are not happy where they are don't you? As for getting upset at the way we sign your players, I suggest you look back at the amount of rubbish we've had to put up with from your club regarding how you were going to get Henry, even though he was under contract (now that really is against the rules). It's been going on all season, unsettling our players is not really ethical is it? Also, you make a comment about big boys, which seems to suggest Arsenal are not a big club, that's just ignorant, and rude. Typical of the sort of rubbish we've been hearing all season regarding why Henry would love to play for Barca over Arsenal. Well, why do your youngsters want to move to a smaller club? Is it because they don't have ambition? If that's the case, why are you all getting so upset about tham leaving? Surely you don't need players without ambition on your payrol do you?

3. Obviously your time is precious, as can be seen by the lengthy reply. Insulting me will only undermine your argument.

4. Was Oleguer in the youth academy for more than 3 years? If so, I'm sure the spanish FA would be interested to know you had fielded a 24 year old in a youth game.
So is buying a 21 yerar old what you call developing your own youngsters? The first name out of the bag when defending your teams youth policy was Puyol, he was 17 when you "bought" him from another club.

It's all good and well arguing a point about another club, but to admit that you don't know, and you don't have time to find out, kind of makes your argument a little weak.

neveryoumind : Mate even as an Arsenal fan, I have to say your missing the point here, also Cygan ? we signed him from Lille when he was 28, what youth policy of Arsenal is he from ?.


If we take others like Reyes he was bought for a club record of 17 million from Seville, he is not a product of Arsenal youth policy, nor is Van Persie, who is a product of Feyenord. Walcott is a product of the Southampton youth policy, Wenger has been watching Theo since he was 14 . The players who have come through Arsenal academy so far are Ashley Cole, and Kerrea Gilbert, Justin Hoyte who is on loan at Sunderland is another who would be part of the first team squad, but the players you mention are not through the Arsenal academy. There is a difference of buying young talent and developing it, up to now, most players via our academy such as Pennant, Bentley, have had to go elsewhere to play.

If as is claimed here that 19 players of the Barca academy make up the first team squad and reading the article he does not include Puyol or Oleguer in that 19, then that is an impressive record, and its no wonder Arsenal and Chelsea etc are looking to pick players from it like we did with Cesc.

The stupid FA rules mean this is likely to continue, we could have a different argument about how the FA are hurting homegrown players chances because now the likes of Man Utd etc look abroad to find their talent. Fergie has spoken on this, the current rules mean he would not have been able to sign Beckham.

There is no question Arsenal's development of promising talent is working, the side is proof of that, but currently our aim is to take the cream of Europe's academys and help them turn into first team stars. You are correct that is Wengers policy, but our local Academy has still some way to go to Match what Barcelona have done. As a Gooner I am happy to keep taking what they have, we don't make the Rules, and if football continues to have stupid rules, that restrict clubs, they will always be exploited.

To: neveryoumind [Visitor]
Sorry to say this, but you are a hopeless case. Or may be, this is candid camera and somebody is taking the Mickey here.

Again, please read before you write!

Just for you again, I did not say, that I do not know the players that you so nicely copied from the Arsenal website. I said, there is no player developed from your youth academy that is playing in the first team at the moment accept Ashley Cole. there are some names on your list I have not heard of because they have never played. there is nothing wrong with this.

You are naming all these youth players but I am not sure what you want to tell me. the players you name among others like Van Persie, Reyes etc. are all players that played already in their first teams (e.g. Feyenoord and Seville) before they even come to Arsenal?
But the best joke is Cygan. Do you know what you are saying there?
Hello, any Gooner around who can explain our friend here were Cygan comes from, how old he is and when he joined Arsenal?

By the way, your english does not seem to be great either, where are you coming from?
But for you slowly, so you understand what others have understood already for a while. But they are more clever than you and therefore are quiet.
If Arsenal (and Chelsea as well as Man U) would play within there domestic rules, they would not be able to sign these players. You do not have to be a rocket scientist to figure out that these players are not leaving their home and family to play for GBP 90 pounds a week. But of course, these Clubs can not do this with domestic players and on their own front door, they have to go abroad.
Of course, you will tell me that they do it because it is an honour to play for the Club. But yeah, you are living in your own little word but we have to be realistic.
But again, if you have your own youth players you do not need others.

I already commented about Oleguer and mentioned it is a bad example because he was not a youth player but hinted that the one error does mean that all other players are not a product of Barca. Oleguer came from a small Club in Catalunya and made his way over years from Barca B into Barca´s first team. Still a development before he actually played first team football, but yes, he was not a Barca youth team player.
Puyol is different, he joined the Barca Academy and he played in the Youth team and Barca B for nearly 5 years before he made his first team debut.

I am not saying that I do not know. I say that in the current squad that is playing I can not see anybody, accept Cole who i would call an arsenal Youth academy product that has been developed for a while. So, please do not turn the things around like you want them to be. And in doing this, you are not making my argument weaker.

I suggest you do your homework first and then you should try it again. May be the Cygan argument gets a bit stronger then! Because this is really weak!

to: Chris [Visitor]
Thank you for your comment, Chris. At least somebody who is pointing out what the whole issue is about. I also agree that the system is not right that foreign Clubs can go around by their own rules and regulations to raid foreign Clubs just because their domestic rule does only protect their domestic clubs.
I also say, that if you have your own youth players, you do not need others. It is as simple as that.
I also do not agree that the English Clubs comply with the rules anyway, because you do not have to be a rocket scientist to figure out that a spanish youth player would leave their country and family for GBP 90 a week. It would be ridiculous if somebody believes this.
There must be a correlation between the English rules and regulation and raiding foreign academies because other big Clubs in Europe would just not do it. They would respect the good work. These type of Clubs have a certain class and would probably talk to the Club and arrange a transfer with a proper compensation because they would not want to spoil the relation. But it seems that managers like Wenger, Ferguson and Mourinho do not keep on good terms with each other anyway, so why should they even with foreign Clubs.

But the whole issue is not good for football and therefore FIFA has to do something about it. Clubs that invest so much in young talents have to be protected and should receive incentives.
If this exploitation goes on, it is the young players that will suffer. the consequence is that for Barca is not worth to invest in the talents and (if I would adapt to the "english" way of thinking) and would have to join the english Clubs in raiding other youth set ups. With all the big guns (I include money splashing Chelski here as well) going out to do the same, i guess a club like Arsenal would be quite far at the end of the queue.
But it also seems that you are not concerned about your identity of your Club. You just do not care, where they are comming from, as long as they are good.
At Barca there is the policy to be successful and bring the best players in the world to the Club paired with players that are deleoped by the own youth set up and the Barca B and C teams when they grow out of the youth set ups. the development does n ot stop when players reach the age of 18. A lot of the players do get into the team when they are are older and ready.

I guess next time, Barca goes out and tries to sign one of your players, do not be surprised. In my opinion you unsettle a teenager with the prospect of a lot of money easier than a 28 year old star who has be in the limelight during his career anyway.

neveryoumind mothafucka you got owned. by sven and your fellow arsenal fan hahahahaha..

Sven, It is not a case that I am not concerned about the identity of our club, simply that as a club in England we are restricted from where we can get players, they must be within 1 to 1 1/2 hours travel of the club... not sure if that allows for London traffic otherwise we are talking about 5 miles !. In the past , just as Man Utd did, with Beckham, teams could go all over the country, this was seen as unfair, that clubs such as Man Utd could have their pick of the best young talent in the country, has the change of rules helped the situation ? I think not. Now we have a case where the top clubs not only have a crop of Nationalities in the firt team, but now also in the academy too. Rules need to be made sorted out, for example , in England as you know we can't take a player like Robinho from Brazil,a player that Arsenal were interested in but Real Madrid can, perhaps if that was possible we would not all be sat with Tents outside your club as Jimmy Jump mentions ?

To: Chris [Visitor]
thank you very much for your sensible comment and it is a pleasure to discuss these issues with you. I would even agree with you, that some domestic rules, especially the work permit issue are a disadvantage to be competitive on the highest level, but other countries have different problems and therefore might have disadvantages in other sectors.

I just want to say here, that FC Barcelona can not be the solution for English domestic problems.
I also do not condem that Arsenal is looking for young talents to integrate into their squad. As you mentioned, we can all see that they are doing it successfully, but the compensation has to be right. In my eyes it can not be that Southampon receives something around 20 Mill Euros and Barca players are for nearly nothing.